Rockstar have reportedly shelved plans for remasters of Red Dead Redemption and GTAIV after the poor reception of Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy - The Definitive Edition. The trilogy, which released late last year, was a technical disaster and heavily criticised despite high sales.
]]>During an earnings call, Take-Two CEO Strauss Zelnick was asked, given the likelihood that many Grand Theft Auto 5 players had never played earlier games in the series, what the company's view was on possible remasters of older GTA games.
Zelnick dodged the question, and so I am bringing it to you: would you want remasters of older Grand Theft Auto games? I would not.
]]>After disabling the option to buy Grand Theft Auto IV in January, Rockstar now say 2008's open-world murder simulator will return to sale in March with a few changes. Microsoft's awful Games For Windows Live technogubbins is being removed because it caused the trouble in the first place, and that's great news. It seems some folks will also receive the expansions or base game for free too. Unfortunately, Rockstar are also removing GTA IV's multiplayer mode and will temporarily disable several radio stations. A mixed crimebag.
]]>After 21 years as a Rockstar Games big cheese, Dan Houser will leave the company in March. He's co-written almost every Rockstar game since 1999, including Grand Theft Auto from London through to V, Bully, Max Payne 3, and the Red Dead Redemptions. That's made him a big influence on the tone of Rockstar's games. I wonder how that might change once he's moved on. Where he's going and what he'll do next, we don't know. He can probably afford to eat pizza while watching Heat on loop the rest of his life, to be honest.
]]>Just in time to launch Red Dead Redemption 2 on PC, Rockstar announced their own game launcher for desktop. Despite having both Grand Theft Auto V and San Andreas available on the new digital storefront, Grand Theft Auto IV is still notably absent. Now it's been delisted from Steam as well, though it doesn't actually seem to be related to any grand plans Rockstar have for their own launcher.
]]>As much fun as we have with our virtual bank-heists, car-chases and random muggings, music licensing seems like a far more lucrative racket. Due to expensive, time-limited music licenses expiring, Grand Theft Auto IV developers Rockstar were recently faced with either pulling the game from sale, paying for a license renewal, or removing a good chunk of its famed soundtrack. Today, a small patch rolled out across multiple platforms, removing the now-unlicensed music tracks and it looks like the damage done may be greater than expected.
]]>Rockstar have confirmed that they need to cut a number of songs from Grand Theft Auto IV due to music licenses expiring, though they will shuffle in new songs to replace at least some. Probably expect a new patch to cut the old and whack in the new. The Russian pop station Vladivostok FM will take the brunt of the cuts, which will also affect GTA 4's Episodes From Liberty City standalone expansions. Rockstar have needed to do this with GTA before and it's still weird to cut up old copies of games, but at least this time they're taping it back together afterwards.
]]>The modding project creating a tool to import Liberty City from Grand Theft Auto IV into GTA V has, sadly, shut down. It was the work of the team behind unofficial modding tool OpenIV [official site] but, after the fuss which saw the owners of GTA briefly shut down OpenIV with legal threats before making peace, they now say they can't make it. Such a tool would be against the new Rockstar modding policy, see. But hey, at least OpenIV is back and its development will continue.
]]>The Steam summer sale is in full blaze. For a while it even blazed so hot that the servers went on fire and all the price stickers peeled off the games. Either that or the store just got swamped with cheapskates looking for the best bargains. Cheapskates like you! Well, don’t worry. We’ve rounded up some recommendations - both general tips and some newly added staff choices.
Here are the things you should consider owning in your endless consumeristic lust for a happiness which always seems beyond reach. You're welcome.
]]>It's warm! Luckily the RPS podcast, the Electronic Wireless Show, have come together to talk cold games, like chilly survivalist city-builder Frostpunk. That's because Adam is back from E3 and can tell us (Brendan and Pip) all about it. He's also played Destiny 2 and Middle Earth: Shadow of War, the lucky sod. Spill the beans, Adam! No wait, don't. We need those.
This week's back-to-normal-length episode also sees us talking about Darkest Dungeon's latest expansion, The Crimson Court, esoteric desert survival RPG Kenshi, and some news about GTA V and the sad fate of its modders. Also: the return of our patch notes quiz, Patch Adam, this time featuring Dwarf Fortress.
]]>Take-Two's lawyers have allegedly shut down OpenIV, one of the main tools for modding Grand Theft Auto IV and V. The OpenIV team say they've received a 'cease and desist' letter from The Suits saying that OpenIV lets people bypass security features and modify the game, which violates Take-Two's rights and must be stopped. And so, the team have announced they'll stop distributing the tool. I'm sure it'll still float around the Internet unofficially, but this is a terrible loss.
]]>Kickstarter's been pretty good for RPGs. We may not have seen the next big leap yet - Divinity: Original Sin 2 is looking pretty damn special, mind - but it's certainly breathed new life into the classics. Wasteland and Pillars of Eternity are both returning. Numenera went down well, despite a little over-promising. Divinity was superb.
Have I left anyone out? (Oh yeah, don't forget Taz.)
Oh. Yes. Tyranny. If you thought that game kinda landed and faded quickly, you're not alone. Despite being a very solid half of a game, even Obsidian/Paradox have admitted that when it came to it, "everyone was hoping that it would do better." I think it deserved to. The thing is, I'm not sure this should have been a huge surprise.
]]>Nintendo's new console, the Swapsie, isn't even out but word has already leaked of a PC port for flagship game Super Mario Odyssey. A new cut of Odyssey's trailer shows the PC version, which naturally boasts higher-fidelity graphics and -- goodness me! -- Nintendo have embraced the 'mature' nature of PC gaming. When toonman Mario ventures into the real world on PC, he sparks fisticuffs with pedestrians, gets chased by armed police, visits strip clubs, and suffers terrible accidents. Oh, Mario! Sadly, the PC version also renames New Donk City (the best place name in any video game) to Liberty City. Here, wrap your peepers around this trailer:
]]>Decoding is a regular column about the games we love, and the tricks and traditions that make them tick.
“Oh shit, I pressed the wrong button and killed that guy.”
It happens to the best of us. You could play Watch Dogs 2 [official site] for days without firing a gun, or causing a fatal traffic accident, or beating someone to death with a billiard ball. Lead character Marcus Holloway doesn't seem like the kind of person who'd leave bodies in his wake, and the ease with which he can become a killer is jarring. Like so many of our protagonists, he walks through life with the safety off and his finger on the trigger.
Open world games, particularly those of the urban variety, have a violence problem, and it's mechanical rather than philosophical.
]]>A new Grand Theft Auto 5 [official site] mod will add the whole flipping city from GTA 4, the developers of GTA modding tool OpenIV have announced. Liberty City will be added to GTA 5's world, rather than replacing it, appearing just across the sea. Crumbs! Given Rockstar are seemingly more interested in expanding 5's multiplayer than its singleplayer, it'll certainly be nice to have a huge new world to play in with GTA V's toys.
]]>Rockstar got their programmers down there to iterate on Grand Theft Auto IV [official site] some more, releasing the game's first new patch for six years on Tuesday.
]]>On Tuesday night, the BBC aired The Gamechangers, their one-off drama about the making of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and the court cases brought against Rockstar Games by US lawyer Jack Thompson. This seems like rich subject matter, but the results proved a disappointment in nearly every way.
Other people have already written accurate reviews and rounded up what Rockstar and former GTA developers thought of it, so I'm not going to do either of those things. Instead I want to talk about the film's failure to offer insight - or even to attempt to depict - the game development process. Mostly I'm going to talk about James L. Brooks' 1987 movie Broadcast News.
]]>The game I was most looking forward to in January has just been pushed back again. Grand Theft Auto V - released on consoles in September 2013, and on some more consoles in November 2014 - is now coming to PC on March 24th.
Oh well. There are some system requirements below, should you want to check whether you can run it in the meantime.
]]>Have You Played? is an endless stream of game recommendations. One a day, every day of the year, perhaps for all time.
I've fallen for Grand Theft Auto IV a dozen times in a dozen different ways. Only the first period of time spent with it was concerned with making headway through the miserable singleplayer missions, and that ended with the bleakness and grind became too great. Every other re-visit since then has been far more fun and uplifting.
]]>Every Sunday, we reach deep into Rock, Paper, Shotgun's 141-year history to pull out one of the best moments from the archive. This week, Adam's 2012 article singing the praises of videogame cities which are more than mere reconstruction, but are built from the bricks and mortar of ideas.
I've been visiting various cities recently, which always fill me with confusion and wonder, then Dishonored made me think about how much I miss Looking Glass. Put the two together and this happens. Join me in a meandering word-search for cohesion and theme in the use of the city across Thief, and the selected works of Rockstar and Charles Dickens. Be warned, there are spoilers for all three Thief games.
]]>Every Sunday, we reach deep into Rock, Paper, Shotgun's 141-year history to pull out one of the best moments from the archive. This week, Adam's celebration of videogame cartography, from cloth maps to digital records of procedural worlds. This article was first published in 2011.
Some of my earliest memories of gaming are not of the games themselves but of the things that came bundled in the box with them. Whether it was a hefty manual, full of lore and encyclopaedic listings, or a little extra something. My games don't even come in boxes anymore. Recently, I've been thinking about the shelves in the house where I grew up, full of big cardboard slabs with none of this DVD case finery. I've been remembering the excitement of opening the box on the bus, surreptitiously because my parents always thought I'd lose the manual or disks before we reached home. And I've been thinking about what else I sometimes found inside.
]]>Good news, urban misanthropy fans: Rockstar have offered a few more details on the PC (and PS4/Xbone) version of Grand Theft Auto V, and put out a new trailer showing it off.
Bad news: they've also announced a delay for the PC edition. Nobody loves us waaaaaaaaaaaaah.
]]>I'm eternally surprised by what modders manage to do with Grand Theft Auto IV, especially as Rockstar never released official mod tools. Modders needed to build tools before they could build mods, a bit like Minecraft--only you end up with high-fidelity murder rather than a monolithic phallus.
The latest wonder rising from GTA 4 borrows an awful lot from another open-world murder simulator: Watch Dogs. Mass-murderer-with-a-heart-of-gold Aiden Pearce is now hacking Liberty City with his magical telephone, popping barriers out the ground, riding trains, spying through cameras, screwing with traffic lights, and generally hacking the planet. It's a remarkable feat.
]]>Fan-made replacement models and textures whatnot have been jazzing up games for decades, but recent years have seen the curious development of custom cinematography. Tools like ENB and SweetFX jack into a game's rendering pipeline, letting people create their own vision by tweaking things like lighting, shadows, colours, reflections, anti-aliasing, and all manner of blooms and blurs. While some try to bring a look closer to reality, others go more moody.
Perhaps the most popular of these for Grand Theft Auto IV is iCEnhancer, adding enough fancy effects and tonal tweaks to make a six-year-old game look fresh as a daisy. Version 3.0 has now arrived, with plenty of new prettiness and a little extra performance.
]]>Total Converts is a new weekly column about mods, maps, models, and anything player-created which you can use to amend or append your games.
I stopped playing Grand Theft Auto IV's missions at the moment where they became too objectionable and turgid to continue. I started to enjoy playing Grand Theft Auto IV almost immediately afterwards, when I began to experiment with the mods available for the game. Without any tools, and with a barely functional Games For Windows Live-cripped PC port, the game's community had introduced dozens of new ways to toy with the parts of the game I enjoyed: its city, its physics, the rambunctious silliness of its free-form multiplayer.
You can fly and fire lasers from your eyes like Superman. You can flank Nico with a phalanx of baby Star Wars Walkers. You can introduce a police notoriety system, or play as a police officer yourself. You can introduce GTAV style character switching, or make the game prettier than GTAV (from particular angles) with a set of ENB Series tweaks.
Or, like me, you can just go for a walk.
]]>OK, maybe not officially, but modders are ensuring that Grand Theft Auto IV continues to sprout bells and whistles like a million retail chains the second Christmas shopping season starts. It's become remarkably more attractive, gained entire landmasses, and received the most important upgrade of all: Iron Man. But that's not enough. It can never be enough. So modders have taken to grandly thieving Grand Theft Auto V's features and cramming them under GTA IV's hood. First up: cross-city character-swapping.
]]>There will be a new GTA game soon. Maybe it'll be on PC. It has three characters, all of which are violent, sweary men. It has some improvements to the graphics. It's spent a lot on music and voice-acting. It has the same sort of gags as the last dozen GTA games/expansions, but with different words. It really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really wants to be a movie.
Here are three new trailers, cunningly combined into one, and focusing exclusively on the story rather than on what you get to do. With crushing, miserable inevitability, there is a strip club scene, because there is always a strip club scene. IGN or someone will have a shot-by-shot analysis any second now, but you can watch the plain old videos below if you really want to.
]]>Oh how far we've come. Back in 2011 - which I still struggle to believe was more than one year ago, or one day, or not tomorrow - we posted about a marvelous-looking GTA IV mod that turned Niko into Iron Man. Or rather, Iron Man if he were only slightly better at flying than one of the firetrucks he's apparently wearing and barely capable of going toe-to-toe with the starvingest of hobos. Happily, however, time's been shockingly good to Rockstar's ubiquitous opus, and the Iron Man mod's no exception. In short, this is what I want the next official Iron Man game to be like. Well, you know, aside from the whole "extremely out-of-character senseless homicidal rampage" thing.
]]>The recent torrent of marketing and marketing masquerading as news surrounding the latest GTA V trailer came with one unsettling ommission - any mention of a PC version of Rockstar's newest open world misanthropy odyssey. There's still no definite news of a release for the One True Format, but Rockstar have at least not ruled it out when the question was put them.
]]>For every Rockstar game since Vice City, the promotional screenshots have been rendered on a PC that only God herself could own, post-processed by a version of Photoshop from the 24th century and employed camera angles that you could only play the game from for 2.7 seconds before driving into a wall. It's oddly reassuring to see that rich tradition continues with the latest round of screenshots from the little-shown Grand Theft Auto 5. Click for embiggenation of all of these.
Behold! A snazzy-looking bicycle as ridden by a man wearing the most heavily anti-aliased lycra trousers you've ever seen!
]]>I've been visiting various cities recently, which always fill me with confusion and wonder, then Dishonored made me think about how much I miss Looking Glass. Put the two together and this happens. Join me in a meandering word-search for cohesion and theme in the use of the city across Thief, and the selected works of Rockstar and Charles Dickens. Be warned, there are spoilers for all three Thief games.
]]>The only bad thing about the newly released ICEnhancer 2.0 for GTA IV is the sense of sadness that a setting as beautiful as its recreation of New York will never be used again. Imagine the stories these streets could still have to tell, if not for our constant thirst for new worlds to conquer. Sigh. Anyway. As much as GTA IV was a system killer at release, you'll need a system-killer-killer system to run this as nature intended - but it'll give you one of the most beautiful games on PC if you can. If not, at least you can enjoy the vicarious thrills of this video. A new version is out soon that tones down some of the extra shiny in favour of a slightly more realistic look.
]]>A successful videogaming franchise is to see another installment! I know, whoever would have believed it? Whether Rockstar's ever-exciting but nauseatingly over-speculated-about latest drive'n'shoot'thumper is going to be on PC as well as the toyboxes is something I don't know at present, because I am writing these words 39 minutes in the past. You, however, are reading them 39 minutes into my future, and may already know the answer. Wait, 38. So I've put some fancy embed code in below that will hopefully magically transform into a live and kicking, honest-to-grud GTA V trailer come exactly 4pm UK time. If it doesn't work, it's probably because I'm an incompetent wuckfit, but you can see it on Rockstar's own site. Or, y'know, every single videogame site on the internet, who've all been deploying all their most desperate attempts at SEO glory over the last week or so. Well done those sites, and I'm sure it will result in only the very highest-quality comment threads.
Hope it's a good trailer, anyway. I'll add some thoughts, if there are many to be had, once it's unlocked and I've watched it. GODSPEED, VIDEOGAME FANS. I'll see you on the other side of the marketing frenzy.
]]>Edit: Gamersgate pack now reduced to £4.99, matching Steam.
]]>Cripes - how would you like the complete Grand Theft Auto series for under £9? There are two ways to do this. You can get yourself a balaclava and steal them from a shop, but it's high-risk, and some would argue morally questionable. Or you could hand over that much money to Gamers Gate, where they're selling GTA 1, GTA 2, GTA III, GTA: Vice City, GTA: San Andreas, GTA IV, and GTA Episodes From Liberty City, for actually 1p less than that balaclava at £8.74. Bear in mind that GTAs 1 and 2 are already free, but that's still one heck of a lot of automobile crime without the broken glass and prison sentence. (Thanks to Michael Rose for the tweeted tip.)
]]>Some of my earliest memories of gaming are not of the games themselves but of the things that came bundled in the box with them. Whether it was a hefty manual, full of lore and encyclopaedic listings, or a little extra something. Most of my games don't even come in boxes anymore, although sites such as Steam Covers can help to keep the physical alive. Recently, I've been thinking about the shelves in the house where I grew up, full of big cardboard slabs with none of this DVD case finery. I've been remembering the excitement of opening the box on the bus, surreptitiously because my parents always thought I'd lose the manual or disks before we reached home. And I've been thinking about what else I sometimes found inside.
]]>What to say about Rockstar? They’ve made me gnash my teeth in anguish this week by stating, to nobody’s surprise, that Red Dead Redemption is unlikely to grace my PC, your PC or anyone else’s PC. But they are giving us LA Noire. They finally got round to releasing Grand Theft Auto IV but there were technical issues and beyond them it needed a monstrously powerful computer to fully capture its criminal charms. And then they went and annoyed parts of the substantial modding community by releasing a patch which, some claimed, was designed to cripple non-vanilla versions of the game. What to say about Rockstar?
]]>Mods! They let people cleverer than I add things to games that the original developers never even dreamed of. Take this (beta) playable Iron Man mod for GTA4, for example. The model has been taken from Marvel vs Capcom 3, and cleverly shoved into Liberty City. Paired up with iCEnhancer mod for extra pretties, and a Superman mod for Supermanification, you've got an attempt at an Iron Man game that already looks more fun than Sega's recent officially licensed efforts:
]]>Today is a bad day not to already have sixteen gigabytes of Grand Theft Auto IV already installed on your hard drive. Why? Because if, like me, you don't you're going to have to wait half a day to download it before you can look at the following incredi-mod yourself. Can it possibly live up to this wonderful, beautiful video? I want to know - but I'm only 5 per cent into the download. And even when it's finished it probably won't run anyway. Noooo!
]]>Let's face it - the next GTA game, rumours of which currently have consoleland all a-flutter, ever arriving on PC is pretty unlikely. Red Dead Redemption never made it this way (something I rue enormously), there's no news of LA Noire doing it either, and Rockstar probably weren't super-happy about the scathing reaction to the belated, bloatware-afflicted PC version of GTA IV. Bah. Bah, I said.
Still, we can at least have things the console fun-toys cannot: such as the series' neon-lit finest hour, Vice City, recreated in the rather meatier GTA IV engine.
]]>A GTA4 video which features "frictionless cars" has been doing the rounds. I post it here in case you've not seen it already. It's moderately amusing in an ouch-but-haha-ragdoll-horror sort of way.
]]>Two years for a little less than two hours: those are the numbers behind The Trashmaster, a feature-length machinima flick made entirely using GTA IV PC and its video tools. Owing a hard-to-miss debt to Scorsese and likely to be pulled from the internet by the Rolling Stones' copyright lawyers any day now, this veritable labour of love is the flashy, violent tale of a vigilante garbageman, cleaning up whatever (i.e. whoever) the police can't...
]]>Yesterday I told you wot I thought of the first half of the GTA IV: Episodes From Liberty City, The Lost And Damned. Today it's the other half, The Ballad Of Gay Tony. Having played it from beginning to end, I feel rather equipped to let you know Wot I Think.
]]>At either end of 2009, two “episode packs” were released for the 360 version of GTA IV: The Lost And Damned, and The Ballad Of Gay Tony. As of a week or two back, the two have been released together for the PC, not requiring the original game to run. It’s an awful lot of game. I’ve finished the both, and so it’s about time I told you Wot I Think. First up, The Lost And Damned. (Be advised - there's a picture of a man's front bottom in this article.)
]]>A hefty GTA4 patch has been released, which promises less-memory intensive (and better looking) shadows and performance boosters and... oh, this is minor, but splendid patch stuff. What makes this posting is what the patch actually removes. As in, the Rockstar Social Club application is no longer necessary to play the game - you log in on a web interface without another program sitting there eating your computer's thinky-time. In short, you need a Social Club log in, but nothing else. It also allows you to buy the just released Grand Theft Auto episodes in-game, though The_B reports errors trying to buy in the UK, but we suspect that's because of - er - something or another. Full change list follows.
]]>The Almighty K has news that Rockstar intend to release Grand Theft Auto: Episodes from Liberty City, the double pack that includes standalone adventures The Ballad Of Gay Tony and The Lost and Damned, which were both release to the Xbox in 2009. The release will happen in March, and the pack will cost about $40. I've not played either of these, so I can't really comment on the worth of this, but hey, at least GTA4 runs on my PC now I upgraded my CPU and memory to way more than I really need.
]]>That Spore kerfuffle earlier in the year sure seems like spilt milk compared to Rockstar's GTA IV balls-up. The multiple DRM systems have proven to be the least of the troubled port's problems - seems Kieron was lucky to even get into the thing, never mind that half his graphics were AWOL.
Everyone's having their own miseries with it, it seems. So, below the cut: a quickie poll to see how many of you lot are having problems with the game. That's along with more ranting from me, and a list of the many fun Fatal Errors players are running into. I'm a victim of RMN40, which apparently means I need to install XP SP3. Problem is I'm running Vista. Nice!
]]>So - GTA's out and its multi-step installation program is causing gnashing of teeth. Take this proper-AIM growl-piece, for example. As is only right, as it's incredibly annoying. However, the main reason to justify the post was to stress... well, you only have to do the Rockstar online club thing if you want to play online games or upload stuff. After installing, you can skip a log-in to it to just play, saving a little time. Good luck. Of course, that doesn't help my own particular problems...
]]>I think all of RPS have reviewed GTA4 PC for somebody or another - the only one I'm not sure about is Walker, and I think someone may have... actually, no, he hasn't, apparently. Poor old Walker, eh? Anyway, while Jim's hit the world of print, mine has hit the internet first, which means I win. I take apart the PC version for Eurogamer, mainly concentrating on the new stuff. And don't worry, installation-worriers. I give a shout out for you. Go read here.
]]>IGN's got a remarkably long Q&A up with some anonymous mouthpiece of the Rockstar hivemind, specifically detailing all the various copy protections and mandatory login guff next week's murder simulator will require to install and run. There will, it seems, be quite a few barriers between you and your hooker-killing; the internet will not be happy.
]]>Rockstar, in preparation for the PC release of GTA IV on 2nd December, have released some sample movies to show off the in-game video editor. And they've gone bonkers.
Clearly a dream for the machinima crowd, the in-built tool will let you create your own mini-movies, which will then be shared on the Rockstar Social Club site.
]]>How many zombies does it take to make a meme? How many zombies is too many zombies? And why is every game suddenly obsessed with them? Well, even more so than usual.
It certainly seems like the en vogue way to drum up renewed interest in a game right now - no less than three usually non-zombie-centric titles have made the headlines in the last few days thanks to a little unexpected undeadery.
]]>Grand Theft Auto 4 is set to appear on our boxy electronic workhorses on the 18th of November (21st in Europe, mysteriously). I wonder how many of you will be getting this on PC? Did anyone miss out on the consoles and actually wait for the PC version? I'd find it hard to argue against this being one of the best games this year, and so I'm genuinely glad it's going to hit the PC - with "newly expanded multiplayer" - this side of Christmas. But it does beg the question: where are we going to find to fit this in around everything else that's coming out on the PC this year? A tough conundrum, I know...
]]>Via VG247, the official recommended system specs for the upcoming PC port of of Big Steal Car 4. Oddly, since their discovery yesterday, they've been pulled off the official Games For Windows site and replaced with a 'Coming Soon'. Theories? Either they were wrong, it's the notorious Rockstar info-chokehold at play again, or they've been taken down because the entire internet misinterpreted 'recommended' as 'minimum'. Here's what they were yesterday though.
]]>Annoyingly we're not at this year's Leipzig Games Convention, because we're a) stupid b) poor c) lazy and d) unfit for public consumption. We did intend to be, but things fall apart, the centre of PC game blogging cannot hold.
But let's pretend. Imagine we are actually there, and the list of links below is actually stuff we've seen and written ourselves. It'll be fun!
]]>As GTA IV enters its extensive beta-testing period on 360 and PS3, the question remains exactly when it will be released on PC.
Okay, sure, they've yet to announce it for PC, but tradition dictates that it should be with us within the next year. And if that tradition continues, it will be a superior version designed for considerably more handsome people. Well, we've been down to the rumour mill, despite hazardous safety conditions and a lack of protective eyewear, and heard that it might be in November.
]]>